also, hate to have to say this... am i amanda or is that someone else? if it is me and yall messed up my first name thats okay, i just recognized a quote from her that i believe i said, but i dont typically share my last name, again, its completely okay!
Quora: Could Taylor Swift have Asperger's syndrome?
But I must have just said your name wrong. So sorry. We will note the correction in the show notes. I don’t normally do that! I apologize. Hope you thought it was accurate otherwise!
its alright! im so happy about this ep, i gasped as loud as i did when taylor played mirrorball (my favorite song) on the eras tour when i was watching the livestream
I am not a Swiftie, but I absolutely loved this episode--maybe the best yet! (Though I don't really know what that means--whatever.) AND: I just learned that there is a pop-up to hype her forthcoming album that is set up like a library: books, bookshelves, a typewriter, and best of all? A card catalog! Be still my autistic bookish heart!
This was such an amazing episode!! Truly stunning. Loved how Matt was speechless after reading Taylor's quotes- she literally describes autism / autistic culture to a T. Angela, your 50 hours of research were well worth it! I'm not a Swifty, but I am definitely more inclined to become one now. Also, I cackled when Matt sang the McDonalds diddy and said "I'm autistic" instead of "I'm lovin' it." Gotta love safe foods. I feel sad that Taylor has been describing herself and her reality in her songs so directly but she still doesn't know that she's not alone! I used to write songs too, and they were all about the same idea - being on the outside and watching other people but never belonging. You belong in Autistica, Taylor!!
Aww, yeah, so many of us remember what it was like to know we were different but not know why. I think that's part of why we tend to want to go around and tell everyone about how amazing Autistica is! Like, "Here! Welcome! Have some community! It feels so good!" ;)
Another reason I relate to Taylor's music so much is because when I was growing up I studied and observed people like she did, and I often developed a special interest for a specific person. I was particularly interested in understanding romantic relationship dynamics, so my special interest people would typically be a crush or a boyfriend. I'd also get lost in elaborate daydreams about my life with these people and wasn't always in touch with reality. I'd be perplexed when they rejected me or if there was a breakup out of nowhere, and I'd search for understanding about where things went wrong or why we weren't compatible. Often times it was because (unbeknownst to me) my mask started to slip when I got more comfortable. I was fixated on finding my perfect match, over and over. So much of the experiences I just shared are reflected everywhere in her music. She is always reflecting on and reframing her romantic relationships. She spends a lot of time deeply in fantasy about them, like I did. She even has songs that feel like they are about trying to repair relationships after a meltdown, which I can really relate to.
So happy to hear this episode! Taylor became my latest special interest within the last month or two, partly thanks to hearing Angela mention her as an autistic suspect in a recent episode. I kept thinking about whether she could be, and now I've had her last four or five albums on repeat!
I've also noticed she uses color a LOT to represent her music, and she really likes to categorize it...
I almost forgot: the music video for "Delicate" is pretty much an expression of her desire to stop masking and stim openly without being judged https://youtu.be/tCXGJQYZ9JA?si=QseNv25Y1DAM41ug
OMG my wife has been giving me such crap about my bad posture and this bump on the back of my neck from being hunched over and stressed. I made her listen to that part of the episode. Had no idea it's part of the 'tism! This made me SO happy to hear. I've been wondering what the hell this is. Gonna do research now.
Also, it's undeniable that Taylor Swift is autistic. Awesome episode.
You should have seen my happy stimming when I got the email this episode was out! I had been suspecting that it was coming soon and has been imagining where I'd be and what I'd be doing and how I would react the moment I saw it. I absolutely loooooved the episode! My two main special interests these days are autism and Taylor Swift so it was such a a special moment having them collide so wonderfully on one of my absolute favorite podcasts! Thank you thank you thank you!
Hey guys, I actually have a small little update, theres a song on The Tortured Poets Department: The Anthology called "I Hate It Here" VERY ND energy!!!
Thank you for this episode. It blew my mind! I did not think that I would at all relate to this but this is EVERYTHING! I have loved Taylor Swift ever since the David Mueller incident. (Swifties may correct me if I am wrong) Whenshe accused him of sexual assault they tried to pressure her to deny it happened because he could loose his job. I LOVED it when she said something like “I’m not responsible for the consequences of his actions.” My small nieces were so into her at the time and I was so so so thankful she was their Icon. I wish I had a pop star like that to teach me that sexual assault was not my fault and that I did not have to put my integrity down because an older gross drunk man assaulted me. I have never had that kind of backing in my life. I can relate on so many levels of being a conventionally “pretty” girl but also being so Autistic. I was often told I belonged in the popular group by my family because I was so pretty and should be a model. I did not like to be with the popular people in elementary and middle school because they were mean. I couldn’t talk trash about people behind their back and be mean. I preferred to hang out with people that I found to be authentic, not popular and beautiful. Later in life I would come to realize a lot of my closest friends in school were ADHD trouble maker boys. I also have ADHD and I totally vibed on their level and would actually help calm them down in class. So much so that one of the teachers asked me to her aid my Senior year because I was so good at calming the restless boys in class. I was considered popular in High School only because I was in a very small school. My graduating class was only 150. Because I had AuDHD and I could not stand being home, I joined Drama, Cheerleading, student council, atheistic training and track. The cheerleaders just happened to all be gifted. So I wasn’t identified as gifted because of my learning disabilities but now I know that I am so I fit in seamlessly with the popular gifted kids. Although I did feel bad when they said I went to bone head English. I am BFF’s with the cheer captain to this day. (I am convinced she is AuDHD too, it she denies it) I am just so thankful that you pointed all of these things out because when you are tall, blonde and pretty people have very low expectations of you. They are happy if you just sit there and make them look good. Your personality doesn’t matter. I had several guys tell me that I was the most charming person they had ever dated. They weren’t used to dating someone with a personality or someone who was smart. However all of those men broke it off with me when they wanted to start paying for me to get my nails done and self tanning memberships and waxing and plastic surgery. They were offended when I did not want to do it because they would have paid. In the end they wanted me to look perfect not be myself. I couldn’t do that either because, it was not authentically me. So although I could get the guy, I couldn’t be the girl they wanted me to be. I was too weird. A lot of people have a hard time sympathizing with me because of that. So I have always felt like I was even more wrong because I could not play the part to keep the boyfriend, when so may people seemed to want to be in my shoes. I don’t think of myself as super pretty. But sometimes that is the only identity I have and now that I am aging this is all coming up for me again because women over 40 are not desirable and if I am not considered pretty, who am I? I know it sounds weird and so many people would not understand. It’s just made this deep dive into figuring out who I am and unmasking even more difficult. I was diagnosed with ADHD at 45 and Matt welcomed me as a fellow Autistic soon after. This podcast has been instrumental in helping me develop who I am and to have words to describe it. It also makes me so authentically happy. When I am in burnout (as I have been in and out of for the past 2 years) I listen to this podcast to lift my spirits and to make me feel proud about being who I am.
We are so happy to have you in autistica! You make us look good just by unapologetically living the complete, whole, perfect AuDHD life you were meant to live!
Thank you! 😊 it can really be a lonely place. Girls usually hate me upon first glance and take my shyness as snobbery. I’ve been called a snob so many times. I’ve lost several girlfriends due to them being jealous that I used to get a lot of attention by men. So I ended up feeling my most like myself either with my BFF or in the LGBTQ environment. We used to hang out at drag shows and gay bars. I felt so much like I could be me there. Now that I also know the high percentage of ADHd and Autistic people in the LGBTQ community it all makes sense. I am a social worker and work at an HIV clinic in CA. I work with aging HIV survivors and I enjoy it a lot because I understand them. I am switching into doing Telehealth psychotherapy because my two sons (both with AuDHD) are not thriving in public school so I am homeschooling them. I have found that many Autistic and ADHD families homeschool. So that community has been nice. I want to be a neurodiverse affirming therapist because I find that SO many of my clients are undiagnosed autistic and or ADHD. Usually the ones coming back to therapy after multiple times. The episode on AuCT was so inspiring because I know what my clients need now to be successful. I hope to do parenting classes and work with newly diagnosed families and people in order to keep them off of the ABA and biomedical intervention tracks.
ABA has infiltrated everywhere and even the whole PBIS thing in public schools is ABA. It’s insane. And I see all of these ABA people now becoming “Autism Certified” which makes me so angry. How dare them! But I suppose they have always felt they are the authentic authority on our care. Makes me angry because I want to intercept newly diagnosed adults to help them and I won’t put that I am autism certified because of what that means, but then I am not trusted as a specialist in this area. It’s infuriating.
Yes I want to attend. I purchased the one earlier this year but I was not able to view the training videos in time for them to be taken down. My non-speaking son was so sick during that time that I could not log in for a. few months. He's still sick but I think we have a little bit of a handle on it. We're doing a lot of testing for autoimmune disorders. I think he has MCAS but you know how it goes, according to them I'm a "hysterical mom" and the doctors know better than me. It's so exhausting trying to get the help we need.
Oh the Hamlet 🎭rabbithole brings me to one my favourite TV shows and books, Station Eleven. The show in particular overlaps with Hamlet so much with the play being in story by a travelling group of players and so many character cross overs. The main character Kirsten 'Kiki' Raymonde is code autistic I feel. In the post apocalyptic world of the story she lives in the imaginary world of the graphic novel after which the story is named. It protects from past trauma and helps her eventually revisit and resolves stuff with the help of her younger self (show only). All happening while she's either playing or directing Hamlet. Every time I watch the show it's even better with all the layers and connections.
Not sure if it's worthy of a show but it's certainly a spin for me.
Her new album has a song titled “Cassandra” I heard you mention that name a few times when it comes to gaslighting I believe. It was on a couple other episodes. I recently discovered you podcast and think it’s fantastical!
Cassandra by Taylor Swift
The lyrics are…
Pre-Chorus
When the first stone's thrown, there's screamin'
In the streets, there's a raging riot
When it's "Burn the bitch," they're shrieking
When the truth comes out, it's quiet
Chorus
So, they killed Cassandra first 'cause she feared the worst
And tried to tell the town
So they filled my cell with snakes, I regret to say
Thanks for sharing! "When the truth comes out, it's quiet." YES! Fun fact: the "Cassandra" archetype comes from Cassandra in the mythology of the Trojan War. She was cursed to see the future, but never be believed. So, she warned the Trojans and tried to stop the war, but they called her hysterical and wouldn't listen, and...things did not end well!
The moment Matt calls her Macheavillian, I about died. Assuming he hadn't heard that line in mastermind (unless he read it, but that part was edited out).
Thank you for this episode! I'm a huge Taylor fan, and have been diving into Gaylor theories, and now this Autism theory, gives me a whole other layer to connect with (and SPIN about 🤣).
I'm certain he is unaware of the connection! Love that things like that just come up, making me feel like Autistics really do share the same "wave-length"!
SOOOO EXCITED FOR THIS EPISODE I REQUESTED IT A WHILE BACK, THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH 🪩
Yay! So glad you enjoyed it!
also, hate to have to say this... am i amanda or is that someone else? if it is me and yall messed up my first name thats okay, i just recognized a quote from her that i believe i said, but i dont typically share my last name, again, its completely okay!
Yup. We got the link right in the show notes:
Quora: Could Taylor Swift have Asperger's syndrome?
But I must have just said your name wrong. So sorry. We will note the correction in the show notes. I don’t normally do that! I apologize. Hope you thought it was accurate otherwise!
its alright! im so happy about this ep, i gasped as loud as i did when taylor played mirrorball (my favorite song) on the eras tour when i was watching the livestream
I am not a Swiftie, but I absolutely loved this episode--maybe the best yet! (Though I don't really know what that means--whatever.) AND: I just learned that there is a pop-up to hype her forthcoming album that is set up like a library: books, bookshelves, a typewriter, and best of all? A card catalog! Be still my autistic bookish heart!
https://pagesix.com/2024/04/16/entertainment/taylor-swifts-tortured-poets-department-pop-up-in-la-all-the-easter-eggs/
Amazing. Like, "Hey you need to go on a big press tour." "Okay, but I'm bringing a mobile library with me." This is the way. LOL
Right???
This was such an amazing episode!! Truly stunning. Loved how Matt was speechless after reading Taylor's quotes- she literally describes autism / autistic culture to a T. Angela, your 50 hours of research were well worth it! I'm not a Swifty, but I am definitely more inclined to become one now. Also, I cackled when Matt sang the McDonalds diddy and said "I'm autistic" instead of "I'm lovin' it." Gotta love safe foods. I feel sad that Taylor has been describing herself and her reality in her songs so directly but she still doesn't know that she's not alone! I used to write songs too, and they were all about the same idea - being on the outside and watching other people but never belonging. You belong in Autistica, Taylor!!
Aww, yeah, so many of us remember what it was like to know we were different but not know why. I think that's part of why we tend to want to go around and tell everyone about how amazing Autistica is! Like, "Here! Welcome! Have some community! It feels so good!" ;)
Another reason I relate to Taylor's music so much is because when I was growing up I studied and observed people like she did, and I often developed a special interest for a specific person. I was particularly interested in understanding romantic relationship dynamics, so my special interest people would typically be a crush or a boyfriend. I'd also get lost in elaborate daydreams about my life with these people and wasn't always in touch with reality. I'd be perplexed when they rejected me or if there was a breakup out of nowhere, and I'd search for understanding about where things went wrong or why we weren't compatible. Often times it was because (unbeknownst to me) my mask started to slip when I got more comfortable. I was fixated on finding my perfect match, over and over. So much of the experiences I just shared are reflected everywhere in her music. She is always reflecting on and reframing her romantic relationships. She spends a lot of time deeply in fantasy about them, like I did. She even has songs that feel like they are about trying to repair relationships after a meltdown, which I can really relate to.
Totally! Me too!!
This describes my grade school experience to a T!
I'm curious if you strongly relate to the song "Right Where You Left Me (Bonus Track)" from the Evermore album
I think so! I'll message you to elaborate
So happy to hear this episode! Taylor became my latest special interest within the last month or two, partly thanks to hearing Angela mention her as an autistic suspect in a recent episode. I kept thinking about whether she could be, and now I've had her last four or five albums on repeat!
I've also noticed she uses color a LOT to represent her music, and she really likes to categorize it...
- By Eras: See The Eras Tour, a showcase of her work neatly divided by album/era. Also, see the "Lover House" she created with a color-coded room for each era (https://www.housebeautiful.com/lifestyle/entertainment/a45375998/taylor-swift-lover-house-explanation)
- By Pens: See the metaphorical types of pens she assigns to each song
(https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/taylor-swift-new-playlists-quill-fountain-glitter-gel-pen-1235156115)
- By Stages of Grief: See the set of playlists she just released last week (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/taylor-swift-stages-grief-playlists-apple-music-1234999955)
Thank you for all of these additional links and insights!!
Coming across the notion that she could be autistic is a huge part of what kicked off my Taylor Swift special interest as well!
I almost forgot: the music video for "Delicate" is pretty much an expression of her desire to stop masking and stim openly without being judged https://youtu.be/tCXGJQYZ9JA?si=QseNv25Y1DAM41ug
I LOVE that video for that very reason!
OMG my wife has been giving me such crap about my bad posture and this bump on the back of my neck from being hunched over and stressed. I made her listen to that part of the episode. Had no idea it's part of the 'tism! This made me SO happy to hear. I've been wondering what the hell this is. Gonna do research now.
Also, it's undeniable that Taylor Swift is autistic. Awesome episode.
Hahaha knowledge is power! :)
I didn't know that was part of the 'tism either, but it certainly is part of my posture! I loved that part, too.
You should have seen my happy stimming when I got the email this episode was out! I had been suspecting that it was coming soon and has been imagining where I'd be and what I'd be doing and how I would react the moment I saw it. I absolutely loooooved the episode! My two main special interests these days are autism and Taylor Swift so it was such a a special moment having them collide so wonderfully on one of my absolute favorite podcasts! Thank you thank you thank you!
Thanks for listening! So glad it made you flappy-happy!!
Hey guys, I actually have a small little update, theres a song on The Tortured Poets Department: The Anthology called "I Hate It Here" VERY ND energy!!!
Thank you for this episode. It blew my mind! I did not think that I would at all relate to this but this is EVERYTHING! I have loved Taylor Swift ever since the David Mueller incident. (Swifties may correct me if I am wrong) Whenshe accused him of sexual assault they tried to pressure her to deny it happened because he could loose his job. I LOVED it when she said something like “I’m not responsible for the consequences of his actions.” My small nieces were so into her at the time and I was so so so thankful she was their Icon. I wish I had a pop star like that to teach me that sexual assault was not my fault and that I did not have to put my integrity down because an older gross drunk man assaulted me. I have never had that kind of backing in my life. I can relate on so many levels of being a conventionally “pretty” girl but also being so Autistic. I was often told I belonged in the popular group by my family because I was so pretty and should be a model. I did not like to be with the popular people in elementary and middle school because they were mean. I couldn’t talk trash about people behind their back and be mean. I preferred to hang out with people that I found to be authentic, not popular and beautiful. Later in life I would come to realize a lot of my closest friends in school were ADHD trouble maker boys. I also have ADHD and I totally vibed on their level and would actually help calm them down in class. So much so that one of the teachers asked me to her aid my Senior year because I was so good at calming the restless boys in class. I was considered popular in High School only because I was in a very small school. My graduating class was only 150. Because I had AuDHD and I could not stand being home, I joined Drama, Cheerleading, student council, atheistic training and track. The cheerleaders just happened to all be gifted. So I wasn’t identified as gifted because of my learning disabilities but now I know that I am so I fit in seamlessly with the popular gifted kids. Although I did feel bad when they said I went to bone head English. I am BFF’s with the cheer captain to this day. (I am convinced she is AuDHD too, it she denies it) I am just so thankful that you pointed all of these things out because when you are tall, blonde and pretty people have very low expectations of you. They are happy if you just sit there and make them look good. Your personality doesn’t matter. I had several guys tell me that I was the most charming person they had ever dated. They weren’t used to dating someone with a personality or someone who was smart. However all of those men broke it off with me when they wanted to start paying for me to get my nails done and self tanning memberships and waxing and plastic surgery. They were offended when I did not want to do it because they would have paid. In the end they wanted me to look perfect not be myself. I couldn’t do that either because, it was not authentically me. So although I could get the guy, I couldn’t be the girl they wanted me to be. I was too weird. A lot of people have a hard time sympathizing with me because of that. So I have always felt like I was even more wrong because I could not play the part to keep the boyfriend, when so may people seemed to want to be in my shoes. I don’t think of myself as super pretty. But sometimes that is the only identity I have and now that I am aging this is all coming up for me again because women over 40 are not desirable and if I am not considered pretty, who am I? I know it sounds weird and so many people would not understand. It’s just made this deep dive into figuring out who I am and unmasking even more difficult. I was diagnosed with ADHD at 45 and Matt welcomed me as a fellow Autistic soon after. This podcast has been instrumental in helping me develop who I am and to have words to describe it. It also makes me so authentically happy. When I am in burnout (as I have been in and out of for the past 2 years) I listen to this podcast to lift my spirits and to make me feel proud about being who I am.
We are so happy to have you in autistica! You make us look good just by unapologetically living the complete, whole, perfect AuDHD life you were meant to live!
Thank you! 😊 it can really be a lonely place. Girls usually hate me upon first glance and take my shyness as snobbery. I’ve been called a snob so many times. I’ve lost several girlfriends due to them being jealous that I used to get a lot of attention by men. So I ended up feeling my most like myself either with my BFF or in the LGBTQ environment. We used to hang out at drag shows and gay bars. I felt so much like I could be me there. Now that I also know the high percentage of ADHd and Autistic people in the LGBTQ community it all makes sense. I am a social worker and work at an HIV clinic in CA. I work with aging HIV survivors and I enjoy it a lot because I understand them. I am switching into doing Telehealth psychotherapy because my two sons (both with AuDHD) are not thriving in public school so I am homeschooling them. I have found that many Autistic and ADHD families homeschool. So that community has been nice. I want to be a neurodiverse affirming therapist because I find that SO many of my clients are undiagnosed autistic and or ADHD. Usually the ones coming back to therapy after multiple times. The episode on AuCT was so inspiring because I know what my clients need now to be successful. I hope to do parenting classes and work with newly diagnosed families and people in order to keep them off of the ABA and biomedical intervention tracks.
ABA has infiltrated everywhere and even the whole PBIS thing in public schools is ABA. It’s insane. And I see all of these ABA people now becoming “Autism Certified” which makes me so angry. How dare them! But I suppose they have always felt they are the authentic authority on our care. Makes me angry because I want to intercept newly diagnosed adults to help them and I won’t put that I am autism certified because of what that means, but then I am not trusted as a specialist in this area. It’s infuriating.
It also makes me angry that LCSW’s (licensed clinical social workers in CA) cannot diagnose ADHD and Autism. It’s all so unfair
Matt has a class on Autistic Centered Therapy coming up over at Learn Play Thrive. We’ll keep you posted?
Yes I want to attend. I purchased the one earlier this year but I was not able to view the training videos in time for them to be taken down. My non-speaking son was so sick during that time that I could not log in for a. few months. He's still sick but I think we have a little bit of a handle on it. We're doing a lot of testing for autoimmune disorders. I think he has MCAS but you know how it goes, according to them I'm a "hysterical mom" and the doctors know better than me. It's so exhausting trying to get the help we need.
Loved this episode! And it made me think of a favorite universe of mine: Brandon Sanderson’s Cosmere. Anybody requested an episode on that yet??
Not yet, but I just added it to the list!
Oh the Hamlet 🎭rabbithole brings me to one my favourite TV shows and books, Station Eleven. The show in particular overlaps with Hamlet so much with the play being in story by a travelling group of players and so many character cross overs. The main character Kirsten 'Kiki' Raymonde is code autistic I feel. In the post apocalyptic world of the story she lives in the imaginary world of the graphic novel after which the story is named. It protects from past trauma and helps her eventually revisit and resolves stuff with the help of her younger self (show only). All happening while she's either playing or directing Hamlet. Every time I watch the show it's even better with all the layers and connections.
Not sure if it's worthy of a show but it's certainly a spin for me.
"I remember damage. Then escape." <3
Exactly! I saw this yesterday "I'm at my best when escaping"
https://imgur.com/LwePEHl
Not sure if it's the original artist or fan art.
"Survival is insufficient" is very big for me on post identification journey
The illustration is rad! "Survival is insufficient" is such a beautiful North Star--great choice!
Her new album has a song titled “Cassandra” I heard you mention that name a few times when it comes to gaslighting I believe. It was on a couple other episodes. I recently discovered you podcast and think it’s fantastical!
Cassandra by Taylor Swift
The lyrics are…
Pre-Chorus
When the first stone's thrown, there's screamin'
In the streets, there's a raging riot
When it's "Burn the bitch," they're shrieking
When the truth comes out, it's quiet
Chorus
So, they killed Cassandra first 'cause she feared the worst
And tried to tell the town
So they filled my cell with snakes, I regret to say
Do you believe me now?
Thanks for sharing! "When the truth comes out, it's quiet." YES! Fun fact: the "Cassandra" archetype comes from Cassandra in the mythology of the Trojan War. She was cursed to see the future, but never be believed. So, she warned the Trojans and tried to stop the war, but they called her hysterical and wouldn't listen, and...things did not end well!
The moment Matt calls her Macheavillian, I about died. Assuming he hadn't heard that line in mastermind (unless he read it, but that part was edited out).
Thank you for this episode! I'm a huge Taylor fan, and have been diving into Gaylor theories, and now this Autism theory, gives me a whole other layer to connect with (and SPIN about 🤣).
I'm certain he is unaware of the connection! Love that things like that just come up, making me feel like Autistics really do share the same "wave-length"!