Listen now (69 mins) | In this episode, Matt and Angela uncover the truth about the damaging terms profound autism and giftedness. They debunk common misconceptions, and explain why the terms are harmful.
Really powerful message! I really like your, Angela, way/method of humanising Autistics by v-lining (train reference, lol) for the SpIn and ignoring the label in that context. Clever and caring, what a great example of Autistic culture. Your example is a handy scaffold for those moments, so thanks for sharing.
My story as a late-identified 'gender diverse' (I prefer the term gender chaotic/anarchist, how good would it be to see in scientific literature!?)
In primary (aka elementary) school, I was in both remedial (maths and English) and extension (science, social studies and languages) classes at the same time (talk about spiky profile!).
In secondary school, I was barely passing until things 'clicked' for me in year 9 (age 15/6) and then they were talking about skipping me a year. I actually asked that they don't because I was scare of the bigger kids. Plus I just wanted to take some non-academic subjects like graphics, sewing and cooking (family didn't consider those real subjects though). So instead I took university subjects early before I'd graduated (adults are nicer or at least disinterested compared to big kids).
Maybe that extreme dynamic asynchrony with schooling expectations is more an AuDHD thing, not sure what other people's experiences have been like? I then went on to do undergrad in biomedical science, graduate medical school, was two-thirds through my specialist training in psychiatry and completed a masters in it before my burnout and addiction set in.
So yeah, capitalism sucks and the cost of masking is expensive. It is a shame they don't give you a cost agreement prior, I'm sure most of us wouldn't sign up if informed consent was required.
If I could mention a thought I had about 'neurospicy' or my preferred term 'neurosparkly';
- I personally don't love spicy because it perpetuates a stereotype and limited perception of another oppressed group that I don't belong to; Latin culture. The trope that everyone of that group have characteristics that are exotic, mysterious, wild and unpredictable etc.
- But I do believe 'transition' concepts have value. No one just jumps from internalised ableism and stigma to positive and affirming Autistic identity by clicking their fingers. We are obviously well aware of this at the Autistic Culture Podcast - not new information haha. These terms can be away for people to wade in the shallow end without having to dive in the deep end. And I think it's important that all ways that are not harmful are valid and affirmed. As a queer person, I need to embrace that life is all a series of transitions, and arriving is often impossible or not the point. If 'neuro-[adjective]' helps people to claim their entry into Autistica, I propose we don't devalue it. Instead we contextualise it, provide information on what it can and can't do. I think it has particular strength, if the adjective that is selected is one that doesn't come from an external source, that is one that really helps communicate/connect to what that individuals lived experience feels like for them (the qualia, meaning to them). Of course it can still be used for avoidance, but it can also be used to gain proximity. Just like my bespoke term, gender chaotic - does that separate me from other people with similar experience? Many may not resonate with that term. But even if they don't, maybe they will resonate with the need for a personally meaningful term and the need not to be homogenised is a higher need. Don't get me wrong I think there's a lot of power in solidarity and re-claiming highly stigmatised labels can be therapeutic for some people, I would just hate to see it become a gatekeeping tool.
Okay - I like this thinking and appreciate the challenge. I just read this book Deaf Utopia by Nyle DiMarco who is deaf. Near the end of the book he has a chapter about how he discovered he was sexually fluid. It's a whole chapter and he walks you through why he is not gay. He comes out to his family as sexually fluid. He is really confident in this choice. Mind you this is a good 2/3rd or 3/4s of the way through the book so it feels like the big reveal.
And then.... in the FINAL chapter... in like a sentence or two he says essentially - turns out I was gay all along just like everyone said and coming out as gender fluid was really just (as you say) "a way to wade in the shallow end without having to dive in the deep end."
I did think it was pretty funny he dedicated an entire chapter on the validity and merits of one of these cutesy terms like neurospicy... but well... I am willing to learn and I get your point... better to contextualize than devalue because these can be deep waters to get into... So thanks for sharing this... You definitely got me thinking.
I was already excited for this episode but when Angela spoke about all the ways she would try to be “useful” in relashionships that really strike me. I feel that deeply. Thanks for another great ep guys 💕
Really powerful message! I really like your, Angela, way/method of humanising Autistics by v-lining (train reference, lol) for the SpIn and ignoring the label in that context. Clever and caring, what a great example of Autistic culture. Your example is a handy scaffold for those moments, so thanks for sharing.
My story as a late-identified 'gender diverse' (I prefer the term gender chaotic/anarchist, how good would it be to see in scientific literature!?)
In primary (aka elementary) school, I was in both remedial (maths and English) and extension (science, social studies and languages) classes at the same time (talk about spiky profile!).
In secondary school, I was barely passing until things 'clicked' for me in year 9 (age 15/6) and then they were talking about skipping me a year. I actually asked that they don't because I was scare of the bigger kids. Plus I just wanted to take some non-academic subjects like graphics, sewing and cooking (family didn't consider those real subjects though). So instead I took university subjects early before I'd graduated (adults are nicer or at least disinterested compared to big kids).
Maybe that extreme dynamic asynchrony with schooling expectations is more an AuDHD thing, not sure what other people's experiences have been like? I then went on to do undergrad in biomedical science, graduate medical school, was two-thirds through my specialist training in psychiatry and completed a masters in it before my burnout and addiction set in.
So yeah, capitalism sucks and the cost of masking is expensive. It is a shame they don't give you a cost agreement prior, I'm sure most of us wouldn't sign up if informed consent was required.
If I could mention a thought I had about 'neurospicy' or my preferred term 'neurosparkly';
- I personally don't love spicy because it perpetuates a stereotype and limited perception of another oppressed group that I don't belong to; Latin culture. The trope that everyone of that group have characteristics that are exotic, mysterious, wild and unpredictable etc.
- But I do believe 'transition' concepts have value. No one just jumps from internalised ableism and stigma to positive and affirming Autistic identity by clicking their fingers. We are obviously well aware of this at the Autistic Culture Podcast - not new information haha. These terms can be away for people to wade in the shallow end without having to dive in the deep end. And I think it's important that all ways that are not harmful are valid and affirmed. As a queer person, I need to embrace that life is all a series of transitions, and arriving is often impossible or not the point. If 'neuro-[adjective]' helps people to claim their entry into Autistica, I propose we don't devalue it. Instead we contextualise it, provide information on what it can and can't do. I think it has particular strength, if the adjective that is selected is one that doesn't come from an external source, that is one that really helps communicate/connect to what that individuals lived experience feels like for them (the qualia, meaning to them). Of course it can still be used for avoidance, but it can also be used to gain proximity. Just like my bespoke term, gender chaotic - does that separate me from other people with similar experience? Many may not resonate with that term. But even if they don't, maybe they will resonate with the need for a personally meaningful term and the need not to be homogenised is a higher need. Don't get me wrong I think there's a lot of power in solidarity and re-claiming highly stigmatised labels can be therapeutic for some people, I would just hate to see it become a gatekeeping tool.
Okay - I like this thinking and appreciate the challenge. I just read this book Deaf Utopia by Nyle DiMarco who is deaf. Near the end of the book he has a chapter about how he discovered he was sexually fluid. It's a whole chapter and he walks you through why he is not gay. He comes out to his family as sexually fluid. He is really confident in this choice. Mind you this is a good 2/3rd or 3/4s of the way through the book so it feels like the big reveal.
And then.... in the FINAL chapter... in like a sentence or two he says essentially - turns out I was gay all along just like everyone said and coming out as gender fluid was really just (as you say) "a way to wade in the shallow end without having to dive in the deep end."
I did think it was pretty funny he dedicated an entire chapter on the validity and merits of one of these cutesy terms like neurospicy... but well... I am willing to learn and I get your point... better to contextualize than devalue because these can be deep waters to get into... So thanks for sharing this... You definitely got me thinking.
I was already excited for this episode but when Angela spoke about all the ways she would try to be “useful” in relashionships that really strike me. I feel that deeply. Thanks for another great ep guys 💕